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So I'm looking at pulling the trigger on some organ software and thought I'd seek some expert advice. I’m looking at VB3 and Native Instruments’ Vintage Organs. Of course, NI’s is on sale through tomorrow so I have to make a decision soon.I'm not an organist. Never played a Hammond. I have, however, grown tired of the limitations of playing ROMpler organs because I can't adjust my sounds in real time very well. My main use would be to incorporate it live. My band plays wedding receptions and corporate gigs so it’s not like I play a lot of organ centric stuff.
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I would run it from a Motif ES and am planning on using a Korg NanoKontrol for drawbar control (the original one with 9 sliders).It seems most on this forum prefer VB3, but I see 2 advantages for Native Instruments:1.It can run in standalone mode thereby eliminating the need for a DAW host (I’d use Ableton, otherwise). Plus I can run other NI instruments with it.2.VB3 isn’t 64 bit so I’d have to use something like jBridge for it. (If it even makes a difference?)I still find myself leaning towards VB3 primarily because it seems like so many serious organ players prefer it.
I tried out the demo version and it seemed to work fine.I guess what I’m looking for is some experienced players’ opinions on how these 2 plugins work live: ease of use, flexibility, good sound, how they work with controllers, etc. And what makes you prefer one to the other? I don't know how the NI organ is, but VB3 is as close to the real thing as you're going to get IMO. I use it live with Cantabile Solo (64-bit), and control the parameters with a Korg nanoKontrol. I use an old Roland VK7, which sends out midi drawbar info, so I can use the faders on the Korg as either a second set of bars or as anything else I need them to do. It's a powerful package for not all that much money.
Remember, VB3 software is inside several popular hardware clonewheels.Re: VB3 vs NI Vintage Organs12/09/13 02:46 AM. I have VB3 and the older NI B4. B4 has a lot of shrillness in the upper octaves, and behaves unevenly (they may have fixed this in the later versions).VB3 sounds more faithful to me. IF you control it with a MIDI controller that has enough sliders, it is quite easy to use live (I used to control it with an eMu XBoard 49, knobs instead of sliders, but they still worked for drawbar control).The BIG thing I like with VB3 is that I can authorize it with the key provided when I purchased and it STAYS authorized. The older B4 would require the original CD about once a month to re-authorize it - a real pain having to always carry the original CD and hope it never got broke.I am using it on both 32 and 64 bit versions of Windows 7 with no problems. I usually use a very simple host called VSThost, which runs the VB3 only in my application, and is available in 32 or 64 bit versions. It seems most on this forum prefer VB3, but I see 2 advantages for Native Instruments:1.It can run in standalone mode thereby eliminating the need for a DAW host (I’d use Ableton, otherwise).
Plus I can run other NI instruments with it.2.VB3 isn’t 64 bit so I’d have to use something like jBridge for it. (If it even makes a difference?)I still find myself leaning towards VB3 primarily because it seems like so many serious organ players prefer it. I tried out the demo version and it seemed to work fine.I guess what I’m looking for is some experienced players’ opinions on how these 2 plugins work live: ease of use, flexibility, good sound, how they work with controllers, etc. And what makes you prefer one to the other?I'm (almost) certain any NI instrument purchased today requires the Kontact player to run. I have an older version of NI B4 ll which is stand alone, but no longer use it. GSI VB3 is superior in tone, leslie sim, and uses very few resources in your computer.
I use it with Cantabalie Lite (free)on an old Dell laptop running XP and have no problems at all. As far as the 64 bit thing you will need something but there has been much discussion about this all over the internet, surely someone will be able to get you straight on that. @AnalogGuy1 - You had some of my same reservations. It appears that those got answered in favor of VB3. And I'm using Ableton because 1)I've paid for it already and 2)I really like some of the features (even though I'm not doing anything EDM or DJish with it live). But I've thought about the others.
One step at a time.@MoodyBluesKeys - You bring up a great point: authorization. I've got some other NI stuff that I haven't used live yet. I downloaded it so I don't have a CD-ROM. I wonder if I'll run into any issues with it since most of the time I play places that don't have internet access.Looks like it's VB3 for me. Plus the KC Ambassador of Goodwill has spoken and he hath sayeth VB3! I have NIB4 II and use it since I have it and am used to it, and it's all set up how I want it. (Plus, I don't use it live any more; I use Nord Electro instead.
NIB4 sounded better but I like the 2nd tier and the convenience.) One of these days I'll upgrade to VB3, but I'll keep using NE2 live. Maybe some day I'll run a better sim on a pad.I recommend against jBridge.
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If I'm not mistaken, it adds to latency. My one attempt to use it was not successful. Instead, I just run my DAW in 32-bit mode, despite that my OS is 64-bit.Consider trying the free url=Run it in 32-bit mode, and load VB3 and any other plugins you want. It's a bit clunky to set up, but once you set it up it works the same every time.A host like Cantabile (which I also use) is a lot more flexible and configurable.When I used NIB4 live, I also used MIDIOX to set up low keyboard keys as preset keys, and such.Re: VB3 vs NI Vintage Organs12/09/13 03:18 PM. NIB4 definitely has a shrillness in the high end, in some cases, associated with the 2nd drawbar (oddly enough).For example, with the basic blues drawbar patch, if I kick in fast Leslie, I also have to turn on chorus (which sound I like anyway, even when I prefer no chorus for slow Leslie). If I don't turn on chorus, it just squicks me out; there's a high frequency thing happening that just ain't quite natural.So I set up a control to switch both at the same time (leslie speed and chorus).If I don't have the 2nd drawbar out, I don't need the chorus on fast Leslie.I don't know how Vintage Organ compares with NIB4.Re: VB3 vs NI Vintage Organs12/09/13 05:11 PM.
I don't know how Vintage Organ compares with NIB4.B4/B4II is modelled/emulated, while VO is sample-based. 'Nuff said, IMO.+1 While VB3 has a far superior sound, in my opinion, there may be some who prefer a particular VO program/sound.
However, because it's samples, these are just presets/programs, and and I don't think they allow for manipulation of drawbars or changing CV live within a program. It's just like playing a workstation/sample player. Some OK sounds but it lacks the ability to actually use/play the instrument the way a real organ player would want to. VB3 is modelled and it plays like a real organ. Real time drawbar manipulation. Turn Chorus/C/V percussion on/off at will change from 2nd to 3rd percussion in real time etc.
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And a regular hammond style interface.NI B4 allowed for all the same real time manipulation of drawbars etc. But it's discontinued (and it's not as good as VB3 anyway). My understanding is that the VO organs are all derived from the NIB4 engine, but they are simply samples.VB3 all the way.! If you are starting from scratch consider using the free Cantabile lite. Taking into account you have Ableton live, Cantabile offers a straight forward relatively simple option and there is guide to the basics of setting up VB3 in Cantabile on the GSI site - I happen to know the author of that guide:-) You can also try some of GSI's legacy VST's such as Mr Ray and see if gigging with a laptop is for you.If it is then you can decide whether to use Ableton Live or a paid version of Cantabile or Forte etc if you plan to stay with Windows OS.With current generation OS's, processors and 4gig or more of RAM there should be no noticeable latency. I'm using the latest NI Vintage Organs B3 with Mavericks.
I'm satisfied with it, especially the split U and L virtual keyboard with preset keys (if using an 88 key controller). I control everything else, including the presets with a Korg Nano. It has taken me a while to dial the program in. NI periodically publishes updates.
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The old B4 program from NI is a 'legacy' program, not having been produced for a while. I like NI just fine so I haven't been exploring the market. I'm sure VB3 is a very fine program, and I like the posts about it, so I can keep up without spending more money!
B4 and NI taking a 'step back' from physical modeling to sampling: My understanding from the NI boards is that they decided to discontinue B4 since it would require significant resources to update the code to 64 bit, and would generate few additional sales - most would be free updates to those who already own it. Instead, put relatively little effort into making it a static sample bank for Kontakt and reorient the coding resources into making new VSTs (Monark? It wasn't specified) that can generate substantial new sales.Re: VB3 vs NI Vintage Organs12/11/13 12:27 PM.
VB3 has been my go-to SI organ for awhile now. But I also see a place for NI Vintage Organs; it depends on the variety of factors that are part of a particular recording, or live production.From reviewing the Vintage Organs product page, and checking out the youtube intro and tutorial videos, this does not appear to be a dumbed-down offering. It offers full, parameter control via MIDI, and presents a variety of useful tools for players.Though many players currently seem to prefer modeled organs, Vintage Organs looks to be a very comprehensive, sample based software instrument. I have it in my Receptor, and plan to check it out more thoroughly.